12:00 Rasputnik : like the old smit utility on IRIX? nice.
 12:00 danallen : A special shell is a good option because bash completion is fairly limited; you have more flexibility in a custom shell
 12:00 jclingan : Veritas volume manager GUI used to do this. As you graphically dragged & dropped volumes,  VXVM would show list of commands it would execute.
 12:00 danallen : Also, the custom shell doesn't have to pay the JVM startup tax
 12:01 Rasputnik : jclingan but presumably the vxvm gui was using the cli behind the scenes. the webapp doesn't call out to asadmin.
 12:02 Rasputnik : +1 on separatino of options. I'm always puttnig --port in the wrong place.
 12:02 jclingan : @rasputnik: agree,  it was showing CLI commands it would execute.  
 12:03 jclingan : @kedar: Not a high priority.
 12:03 jclingan : We have higher priorities I think.
 12:03 jclingan : At least for v3(.0) release.
 12:03 jclingan : But if it's easy to add hooks as we update the UI, we should probably do that.
 12:03 jclingan : (update the UI code)
 12:04 ustreamer-97497 : so will the shell have a logic that can be used like bash shell has its own language?
 12:04 ustreamer-97497 : or is it intended strictly to be a place to execute asadmin commands
 12:04 Rasputnik : kedar: the history you were talking about was on the CLI right?
 12:04 danallen : yes
 12:04 danallen : I think there is a separate discussion about using the GUI to create a command cheatsheet
 12:05 Rasputnik : yay!
 12:05 danallen : Like "translate that action for me"
 12:05 Rasputnik : I'd like a pony too please
 12:06 Rasputnik : danallen: understood, like the idea but it sounds difficult :)
 12:06 jclingan : @kedar: I've received the same question in the past, but not a popular question. bash frontending asadmin tends to be good enough for most.
 12:06 jclingan : I'd love to hear otherwise.
 12:07 danallen : @jclingan that's because people don't realize there is anything better
 12:07 danallen : when they see the shell, they will fall over in amazement
 12:07 jclingan : (I'm referring to conditional logic)
 12:07 jclingan : (loops, etc)
 12:07 andrew-5348 : yeah, try / except
 12:07 jclingan : This is good feedback.
 12:07 andrew-5348 : error checking
 12:08 danallen : kedar is channeling my thoughts
 12:08 ustreamer-20949 : sorry, I joined late....was there any word on enhancing the maven plugins?
 12:08 jclingan : Ease-of-use is key. Folks on the "line" are good sounding board. Sorry, I'll stop asking questions :-)
 12:09 pelegri : as long as people don't start dropping off the chat, I'm OK.
 12:09 danallen : @ustreamer-20949 With the new HTTP design, you could create a Maven or Ant plugin in one day
 12:09 Rasputnik : there's more to a shell than just bash though right? asadimn is great for scripting.
 12:10 andrew-5348 : yeah theres a significant difference in using a shell for one-line tasks vs full automation of series of tasks
 12:10 jclingan : @rasputnik: Agreed. folks use asadmin for automated provisioning.
 12:11 Rasputnik : just today I read a capsitrano recipe to deploy jruby apps by wrapping 'asadmin deploy'
 12:11 jclingan : I should say automated configuration (and provisioning of clusters, instances via DAS/Node Agent)
 12:11 danallen : @jclingan of course, the shell is in addition to that core functionality
 12:11 pelegri : Should we start a repository (i.e. wiki pages) for ASadmin scripts?
 12:12 jclingan : @pelegri: Good idea. Yes.
 12:12 pelegri : I'll put it in th elist of things for the new wiki.
 12:13 andrew-5348 : agree with Kedar
 12:13 ceri : Provisioning a cluster in about 10 seconds is a big win.  asadmin's completeness is the Killer App as far as I'm concerned
 12:13 Rasputnik : kedar just made my day
 12:13 jclingan : @kedar  Expect the "why not Groovy" question.
 12:13 jclingan : (Sorry, I don't mean to start a flame war ;-) )
 12:13 andrew-5348 : John, do you expect your audience to be more developer like or more sysadmin like?
 12:13 danallen : You can Groovy for free when you have Java
 12:13 ustreamer-59416 : I know that might be very helpful for backward compatility (wiki scripts)
 12:14 pelegri : re: ceri - I agree!
 12:14 danallen : Sure!
 12:14 Rasputnik : irb with a good jruby library would be a very nice interactive asadmin IMHO
 12:15 jclingan : @andrew. Both. For enterprises: sysadmins for sure.
 12:15 danallen : So are we going to have java -jar asadmin.jar?
 12:16 danallen : Meaning standalone not bundled in the GlassFish V3 download?
 12:16 danallen : I think that is what the Ruby Gem was essentially getting at
 12:17 pelegri : Great material in this thread.  I'll try to save it and then sort it and place it on the wiki page
 12:19 danallen : I have to defend JBoss AS of course ;) JOPR is the asadmin equivalent
 12:19 danallen : But that is all very new of course
 12:20 danallen : But yes, JBoss completely missed this for years
 12:20 kedar : Dan and <censored>
 12:20 kedar : are you there?
 12:24 jclingan : Eduardo, is there a way to get these as MP4s?
 12:25 andrew-5348 : I think a good deal of companies are matrixed and the developers are rarely setting up the middle a higher level environments
 12:25 ceri : The simplicity of knocking out another server instance for testing is so easy.  Can't do that with tomcat
 12:25 danallen : @andrew That's because these things were so difficult to use for a classic admin
 12:25 andrew-5348 : so I'd think people switching from Tomcat to glassfish would really value that strong CLI
 12:25 danallen : They just said, "screw it, you do it" I mean I have seen these discussions happen
 12:25 andrew-5348 : *nods*
 12:25 pelegri : re: John/MP4.  Sure.  We do that, a bit slowly but we have been doing that.
 12:27 andrew-5348 : I agree entirely
 12:28 AlexisMP-4170 : blogs.sun.com/glassfishpodcast :)
 12:31 andrew-5348 : checkout logdigger
 12:32 pelegri : I'll ask Carla for a prezo on logging; what else should we piggy back in that session?
 12:33 ceri : @pelegri Would be useful to see something about JDBC observability
 12:35 andrew-5348 : would that be more on the OSGi side?
 12:36 Rasputnik : if the log levels could be accessible via asadmin get/set somehow that would be great, but I'm not sure if the implementation allows that.
 12:36 pelegri : Right.  Although I think it is one of those case of "the theory is easy, the practice...."
 12:36 ceri : Not sure what OSGi means, to be honest :)
 12:36 pelegri : :-)
 12:36 Rasputnik : (again, thinking of making this jirb friendly)
 12:36 Rasputnik : ceri: I'll tell you later :)
 12:36 ceri : :)
 12:37 pelegri : One of my favorite sayings is "In theory there is no difference between theory and practice; but, in practice... " :-)
 12:37 andrew-5348 : :)
 12:39 danallen : This is really fantastic. asadmin really does need to get this exposure. 
 12:39 danallen : It's not just about one app server vs another, this is really benefiting Java EE over anything else
 12:42 ceri : One feature that would be useful in asadmin would be the ability to deploy a jar to an instance (eg, ODBC classes)
 12:42 kedar : Thank you all!
 12:42 pelegri : bye!
 12:42 andrew-5348 : Thank you! This is great, don't stop these please :)
 12:42 andrew-5348 : very much appreciated
 12:42 danallen : Look at mojarra trunk common/ant/glassfish/container.xml
 12:43 danallen : Great session!
 12:43 pelegri : You guys did a wonderful job.  Thanks everybody!
 12:43 pelegri : bye for now